MediaWiki talk:Sidebar

Help nav labels
Bob, the site navigational link labels under Help in the sidebar would communicate better at a glance if they were shorter. Folks primarily only glance at site nave elements because the Web has so much to offer. Since all site nav usually gets is a glance, to communicate effectively nav elements need to be as short and visually distinct as practicable. To do that, I propose re-labeling the nav links under Help, in the left side bar, as follows:

v Help FAQ Create page Edit simple Edit advanced Style Support

For the moment I would simply be modifying the link labels, not the page names they link to. However, if we find we like the above link labels, in time we might consider using them as the page names as well, with the consistent namespace prefix of "Help:" added to all. Currently two of the Help items are in "Teflpedia:" namespace. Putting all Help pages consistently in namespace "Help:" will help users find them. The Style page (Teflpedia:Style guide) and the FAQ page (Teflpedia:Newcomer's guide) could be moved to the Help namespace without getting into serious trouble I presume?

By the way, Patrick is apparently not aware that we have a Help FAQ (the Teflpedia:Newcomer's guide), ironic as he has edited it himself! If "FAQ" were a label under Help, he might be pleased.

What do you say? --Roger 14:21, 12 October 2012 (CDT)
 * Hi Roger.
 * I agree with your logic, but I'm not sure that I agree with your solution. When I came up with those names I was looking for something which would encourage people who knew nothing about wikis to click them.  This means that there is some tension between the good ideas of "shorter and readable" and "longer and meaningful".


 * FAQ - Guide for newcomers. Do people read "FAQ"s? The reason for the other name is to try to make it more useful with the hope that people will actually read it.  Any other shorter name would be welcome though.
 * Create page - Creating a new article. Do wiki newbies understand that an "article" is a "page"? I suppose not, though I imagine speculating about what other people don't know is a tad risky.
 * Edit simple - how to edit simple. How about "simple editing"?
 * Edit advanced - how to edit advanced. How about "advanced editing"?
 * Style - styles guide. Mmmmm. Will people understand "style" to mean "style guide"?  They may.  I'm not sure.
 * Support. Even support, now that I look at it may be a bit short. It is "technical support", but people could confuse it with "financial support" for the site.
 * I certainly don't completely disagree however. No name, no matter how meaningful, is any good if it's never read because of its length. Perhaps you would like to respond to my concerns?--Bob M 01:45, 13 October 2012 (CDT)


 * comment. Roger, my actual words were 'That Help:FAQ looks cool, to substitute "For those new to wikis" aka "Newcomer's guide" aka "frequently asked questions".', by which I meant that the shorter title seemed a better working solution than the other 3 headings/titles currently linking to the same page. Be that as it may, I agree with Bob's rationale in that it's necessary to find "something which would encourage people who knew nothing about wikis to click them." Speaking personally, I'm a highly experienced computer user, and although I work with leading computing experts in just about every area of IT, security, design, solutions, cloud, etc., I know next to nothing about the nuts & bolts, as in code, etc., because I have no interest whatsoever in such aspects. I'm a user, and in the same way that I have no idea how many rpms my washing machine does or how many kW·h my fridge uses or if it contains R-134a or R-600a or HFC-134a... Point is - back on-topic - I never cease to be amazed at how lacking in what I would consider normal user skills most of my colleagues and students are - and most of 'em are quite a bit younger than wot I is and I would therefore expect 'em to be more familiar with new-fangled gadgets. But they ain't. My calculated guess is that very few people under 25 need to check out "help" pages, whereas the rest of of them/us - a majority in the teaching profession? - probably do. That "at a glance" is fine for the youngsters, but a "friendly" style is more likely to encourage a visit from a majority of potential users. And returning to Bob's initial question, I kinda like that "Guide for newcomers". BTW, when I saw that "Support", I thought it referred to "financial support". --Technopat 05:49, 13 October 2012 (CDT)
 * Ps. If I were a teacher who up until now had had no experience with wikis/IT in the classroom but felt that I needed to do a bit of homework and try to be "with IT", I'd feel quite comfortable moving around teflpedia as a sort of interface between the real world, a user-friendly introduction to that great unknown hyperspace. --Technopat 05:57, 13 October 2012 (CDT)
 * Pps. Roger, on one of the commercial websites I translated some time back, I argued long and hard with technicians & web designers over the need for short, sharp nav link labels over the client's multiword preference. My rationale was that, regardless of what the client wanted, the sidebar needed to be concise, with everything "at a glance", whereas the preferred longer, explanatory labels could be placed at page bottom, along with the links to disclaimers, the site map, etc. In the end, the client, a major international bank, imposed their user-friendly philosophy and the result isn't as top-heavy as I had expected, even though most of 'em (I just checked) are between 25 and 48 characters long, much longer than the ones at teflpedia. On the other hand, I'd move that "All logs" into the toolbox 'cos I don't see it as a priority for most users. Likewise the link to "Categories" (which I use a lot). Cheers! --Technopat 06:15, 13 October 2012 (CDT)
 * Pat and Bob, thanks for responding above. Hm, yes, "All logs" could go. I would leave "Categories" there. As for the Help labels, I'm no interface expert; so having expressed my view above I will leave them be in deference to consensus. Bob, I will also leave "All logs" for you do remove if you agree. --Roger 14:08, 13 October 2012 (CDT)
 * It's gone.--Bob M 06:13, 14 October 2012 (CDT)

Donate button
Donate button is now working. It is the bottom entry in the sidebar, is actually text like all the other links, but is styled with CSS to look like a button. The CSS is in MediaWiki:Common.css. --Roger (talk) 16:17, 11 February 2013 (CST)